OJ Simpson preliminary hearing, day 1.

First, let’s talk about trial and preliminary hearing archives, and where they’re kept. There are multiple versions of such things. The trial in full is kept on the Court TV archives. However, it’s layed out by week, not date. There are versions of the trial on Youtube, but it ends up being not full versions, although it is, I’d say around 85-95% of the trial. There’s also a transcript source. What we’ll need to end up doing, is using the court TV archive as a gap filler. Also, when they play videos, and they do, they are not good quality on youtube, so we’ll need to turn to the archive for that, as they are better quality.
The preliminary hearing is kept on Youtube, and I haven’t seen a Court TV archived version of it. There are some motion hearings that I don’t have video for, and took place in January, 1995, there is a transcript of those hearings. There’s the entire civil trial that’s transcribed, and that’s it. It will be up to me, if I decide to go forward with the 2026 trial timeline.
I would recommend using external speakers for most of this. There are times when the audio is very faidy, and there are times when it’s fairly clear. I will link to that day’s transcript at the end, so if anyone is having trouble, you can read it there.
I found long prelim videos, but those had disabled embeds, so we’ll go with short excerpts for the preliminary, and I’ll link to all sources. There is an audio faid in the first one, so right away, we’ll be turning to the transcript!

here is the link to this video excerpt
Here’s a link to the longer video
The faid lasts through the majority of Clarks’ direct examination. The transcript formatting is not my fault! I did not have anything to do with that!
08 Ms. Clark.
09 MS. CLARK: Thank you, Your Honor.
10 The people will call Michele Kestler.
11 THE COURT: Please face the clerk and raise your
12 right hand.
13 THE CLERK: You do solemnly swear the testimony you
14 may give in the cause now pending before this court
15 shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the
16 truth, so help you God?
17 THE WITNESS: I do.
18
19 Michele Kestler,
20 called as a witness by and on behalf of the People,
21 having been duly sworn, was examined and testified as
22 follows:
23 THE CLERK: Please be seated.
24 State and spell your name for the record.
25 THE WITNESS: Michele Kestler. M-i-c-h-e-l-e,
26 K-e-s-t-l-e-r.
27 THE COURT: Thank you very much.
28 You may inquire.
0011
01 DIRECT EXAMINATION
02
03 BY MS. CLARK:
04 Q Good morning, Ms. Kestler.
05 A Good morning.
06 Q Please tell us what you do for a living.
07 A I’m employed by the City of Los Angeles,
08 Los Angeles Police Department, and I am the assistant
09 laboratory director for the criminalistics laboratory.
10 Q Tell us what that means. What are your
11 duties?
12 A My duties include the managing and overseeing
13 of several areas there, including the serology, D.N.A.
14 lab, the trace unit and many of the other units that are
15 there.
16 Q And what does that mean? What exactly do you
17 mean by that?
18 A Well, managing also means evaluating and
19 implementing programs such as serology and D.N.A.,
20 including evaluating crime scenes and managing task
21 forces or large cases, and the employees that are doing
22 the work.
23 Q So you direct the criminalists in what to do,
24 basically?
25 A That’s correct.
26 Q Were you once a criminalist yourself?
27 A Yes, I was.
28 Q Tell us what a criminalist is.
0012
01 A A criminalist is one who collects, preserves
02 and analyzes all types of physical evidence and
03 testifies in court.
04 Q Now, does that mean it’s somebody that goes
05 out to a crime scene to collect evidence from a scene?
06 A Yes.
07 Q Of a scientific or evidentiary nature?
08 A That’s correct.
09 Q Have you also performed trace evidence
10 analysis or blood analysis?
11 A Blood, years ago and trace, years ago also,
12 yes.
13 Q What kind of training did you receive in order
14 to get your current position?
15 A The training in the current position is
16 basically a management position, so I have taken several
17 management classes.
18 But the criminalist position, my training and
19 background includes a master’s degree of criminalistics
20 from Cal State University, and then on the job training
21 including courses at the F.B.I. laboratory and
22 California Criminalistics Institute and various other
23 private classes.
24 Q And how many years of training is that?
25 A Overall?
26 Q Overall.
27 A Master’s degree is two years beyond your
28 bachelor’s. I have probably about total of four
0013
01 years — six years invested there. And training in
02 specialty classes, probably about another two years
03 full-time training if you were to separate it out
04 compared to on-the-job work.
05 Q Now, you have your master’s in what?
06 A Criminalistics.
07 Q And criminalistics, the subject is defined as?
08 A Again, criminalistics is forensic science or
09 all areas of evaluating forensic evidence.
10 Q Now, when you say “evaluating forensic
11 evidence,” Ms. Kestler, what does that mean in terms of
12 your knowledgeability about which tests are available
13 and appropriate to be performed on various types of
14 evidence?
15 A One of the things that forensic experts must
16 look at in any type of physical evidence, the first
17 thing you do is you look at the evidence, you find
18 out — evaluate what you have, what it is, and then you
19 proceed from there, and the type of testing you would
20 like to do is going to be the most informative and the
21 most conclusive, and you have to evaluate each piece of
22 evidence for that purpose.
23 Q And are you qualified to do that?
24 A I believe I am, yes.
25 Q Does your training, in fact, qualify you to do
26 that?
27 A Yes, it does.
28 Q Now, are you also trained and experienced in
0014
01 determining how much volume of sample is needed for each
02 test that you determine is appropriate to be performed
03 on each item of evidence?
04 A Yes.
05 Q Now, in this particular case, was it requested
06 of you to determine whether certain items of evidence
07 that were blood stains recovered from both the crime
08 scene and the residence of the defendant as well as
09 blood recovered from certain items found at the crime
10 scene and the defendant’s residence were sufficient in
11 quality and quantity for subjecting to certain
12 scientific tests?
13 A Yes. We were asked to determine whether the
14 evidence, our best evidence as to whether the evidence
15 was appropriate for that.
16 Q And did you review also the number of tests, a
17 variety of tests, a range of tests that could be
18 performed on each item of evidence in order to gain the
19 maximum possible competence in the results?
20 A Yes. We reviewed the samples and made again
21 our best estimate as to what could be done. Of course,
22 there’s never any guarantee until the tests are actually
23 done or you actually start working with the evidence to
24 determine whether you’re accurate in your estimate.
25 Q Now did you, in fact, then review much of the
26 evidence that has been recovered in this case?
27 A Yes, most of it.
28 Q Tell us, first of all, for purposes of clarity
0015
01 which items were you unable to examine for the purpose
02 of determining whether a blood split could be given to
03 the defense?
04 A Okay. I’d like to refer to my notes.
05 Q Please.
06 A Thank you.
07 The items that were currently available to us
08 were items number 61 through 71.
09 Q Do you have any knowledge, Ma’am, of which
10 items those are?
11 A I have some references to what they are. I
12 don’t have any absolute knowledge as to what they are or
13 where they came from. I know what they’re listed as.
14 Q What are they listed as?
15 A Okay. Item number 61, I believe, is a
16 handgun.
17 Q A handgun?
18 A A handgun, yes.
19 Q Let me just ask you this.
20 Item 61 through 71 —
21 A Um-hum.
22 Q — Is it your belief based on the information
23 you have at hand that none of those items contains blood
24 evidence?
25 A I’m not sure because some of those items were
26 recovered by detectives, I believe, and there’s
27 indicated I know on there — some sheets and
28 pillowcases and a towel with a broken glass, so I have
0016
01 no idea at this time.
02 Q Is it your information that some of those
03 items listed in 61 through 71 came from Chicago?
04 A That’s what I presume based on what they
05 are. That’s my — assuming the detectives collected
06 them because most everything else that is available to
07 us was collected and booked by our criminalists.
08 Q As a matter of protocol, let me ask you
09 something for purposes of clarity, Ms. Kestler.
10 Where can evidence be booked? Are there two
11 places where they can go?
12 A Well, there’s many areas. The Los Angeles
13 Police Department has several property rooms, including
14 one that is adjacent to the crime laboratory and one
15 that is in Parker Center, as well as one in many of the
16 area stations. And evidence can be booked at any one
17 of those locations.
18 Q Now, the items that you have, in fact,
19 evaluated for the purpose of this hearing, where were
20 they?
21 A They are all booked at Piper Technical Center.
22 Q Which is adjacent to your laboratory?
23 A That’s correct.
24 Q The items that you were not able to examine,
25 where are they?
26 A They are booked and sealed in a vault at
27 Parker Center.
28 Q So item 61 through 71, you were not able to
0017
01 look at.
02 A And also items 88 through 90.
03 Q What about items 73 through 81?
04 A 73 through 81, we have those items but we just
05 received those late Friday and have not been able to
06 evaluate them.
07 That is the coroner’s evidence. Some we
08 evaluated. The clothing we could not at this time.
09 Q The coroner would not release them to you
10 until last Friday?
11 A That’s correct.
12 Q Was that, if you know, in order to accommodate
13 the defense in examining the evidence first?
14 A That’s what we were told, yes.
15 Q And items 88 through 90?
16 A Those are booked at Parker Center, and I
17 believe those are from Chicago, based on the property
18 report.
19 Q Those were not looked at?
20 A No.
21 Q Items 91 through 93?
22 A Those were just recovered in conjunction with
23 a search warrant that was served on 6/28, and they were
24 booked late yesterday so we have not had a chance to
25 review those items.
26 Q 91 to 93, weren’t those —
27 A I’m sorry, 91 through 93 were recovered from a
28 Bronco, but they were also just recovered yesterday.
0018
01 Sorry.
02 Q In other words, was other testing being
03 performed on the Bronco?
04 A As far as I know it was, and then there was
05 some indication that there was possibly another search
06 for evidence that they didn’t want to make in the
07 beginning, and so they went back the second time to look
08 at the vehicle.
09 Q But the vehicle remained in police custody?
10 A As far as I know, yes.
11 MR. SHAPIRO: Your Honor, may I suggest to the
12 court that leading questions not be asked of this
13 witness unless absolutely necessary?
14 MS. CLARK: Your Honor, this is an expert witness
15 who has the reports in front of her.
16 THE COURT: Expert testimony is not subject to the
17 leading question objection.
18 However, at this point in time I don’t believe
19 she’s actually giving you expert opinions. She’s
20 rather giving information concerning the specific items
21 of a background nature.
22 The objection at this time is sustained.
23 I mean, I ask you to please — with regard to
24 her expert testimony, obviously she can — you can ask
25 leading questions, but on these foundational matters, I
26 would prefer if you could refrain from asking leading
27 questions.
28 \ \
0019
01 BY MS. CLARK:
02 Q Items 94 through 106 — excuse me, 109, have
03 you looked at those items yet?
04 A No. Those were recovered pursuant to a
05 search warrant on 6/28, and booked yesterday at Piper
06 Technical Center, but we have not had a chance to review
07 them for physical evidence.
08 Q And 110 through 113?
09 A Those were items booked yesterday also at
10 Piper Technical Center, and those were items that were
11 recovered from other items already booked, and they are
12 trace evidence items.
13 Q Are those hairs that were recovered from
14 something else?
15 A They are evidence including hairs and fibers
16 recovered from property items, and I can tell you what
17 those are one at a time.
18 For example, item 110 was recovered from item
19 9. Item 111 was recovered from item number 27.
20 Q Wait. Item 110 —
21 A Was recovered from item number 9.
22 Q What is item number 9?
23 A Again, I’ll refer to my notes.
24 I believe it’s a glove.
25 Q And item 110, what kind of evidence is that?
26 A Yes. Item number 9 is a leather right-hand
27 glove.
28 MR. SHAPIRO: Excuse me, Your Honor.
0020
01 THE COURT: Yes.
02 MR. SHAPIRO: We have not received a list of
03 inventory items beginning at 91 for which testimony is
04 being offered this morning.
05 THE COURT: All right.
06 The document that was provided to me, does the
07 defense have that summary as well?
08 MS. CLARK: I intended to give the copy that the
09 court has to the defense. If the court can allow us —
10 THE WITNESS: I have another copy.
11 MS. CLARK: We have another copy.
12 THE COURT: Please.
13 MS. CLARK: This information is contained in other
14 discovery, but the list that is compiled was just
15 compiled by this witness for her testimony. The
16 information is all in possession of the defense,
17 Your Honor.
18 THE COURT: All right.
19 MR. SHAPIRO: Your Honor, that simply is not
20 true. We don’t have any information about what was
21 recovered yesterday.
22 MS. CLARK: No, this is not pertaining to items
23 that were recovered yesterday. The witness is
24 testifying to items that were recovered some time ago
25 from other evidence.
26 This witness is describing right now trace
27 evidence that was recovered from items that were seized
28 from the crime scene, and the defense is in full
0021
01 possession of that information.
02 MR. SHAPIRO: Your Honor, my recollection of the
03 testimony of this witness is items 94 through 109 refer
04 to items seized yesterday from a search warrant. We
05 have not received any of this information. We asked
06 for it yesterday.
07 MS. CLARK: Your Honor, we didn’t — the people
08 didn’t have the information either, and none of the
09 items seized yesterday will be the subject of any
10 testimony in this hearing because no one’s had a chance
11 to look at it yet, it was so recently seized, and the
12 property reports are presently being compiled. All
13 this witness did was write down the numbers.
14 There’s been no attempt — no time to look at
15 those items for any purpose whatsoever. The property
16 report that will be put together with the return to
17 search warrant will be given to counsel as soon as the
18 people get it.
19 At this time I just asked the witness to jot
20 down the item numbers so it could be indicated to
21 counsel what has or has not been looked at for future
22 purposes.
23 THE COURT: All right.
24 So for purposes of the hearing today, no
25 determination whatsoever as to sufficiency of samples
26 regarding items that were recovered and the execution of
27 the search warrant a couple of days ago is being
28 offered; correct?
0022
01 MS. CLARK: None.
02 THE COURT: Okay. All right.
03 MR. SHAPIRO: Your Honor, in that regard, my
04 understanding is that as soon as the search warrant is
05 executed, a return to the search warrant must be filed.
06 And as soon as that is done, we would like to have the
07 court order immediately to have those items listed and
08 made available to us.
09 MS. CLARK: Your Honor, as counsel should be aware,
10 the police have ten days to prepare a return to search
11 warrant, at which time the property report listing what
12 has been seized is attached to that return, and the law
13 will be complied with as it has been throughout this
14 case.
15 THE COURT: Yes. They do have ten days to file
16 their return, and of course the continuing discovery
17 that is occurring in this matter does require that those
18 matters, of course, be turned over to the defense.
19 In the event that you do have that completed
20 before the ten days, I would ask you to turn that over
21 to the defense as quickly as possible.
22 MS. CLARK: Certainly, Your Honor.
23 THE COURT: All right.
24 BY MS. CLARK:
25 Q So with respect then to — item number 110 is
26 your number for what?
27 A Item number 110 is just a number given to
28 trace evidence recovered from item number 9.
0023
01 Q And that —
02 A That was a glove, and our policy is that
03 whenever we recover trace evidence, that rather than
04 just putting it in a bindle or a bundle with the
05 original item, we book it as a separate item number.
06 Now that evidence was all viewed by the
07 defense in my presence on the 24th of this month. They
08 saw this. It just had not had an item number assigned
09 to it at the time.
10 Q And the trace evidence you’re talking about is
11 number 110, which was viewed by the defense last week,
12 was what?
13 A Hairs and fibers.
14 Q Recovered from a glove?
15 A Recovered from item number 9, the glove, yes.
16 Q And number 111?
17 A Was hairs and fibers recovered — trace
18 evidence again recovered from item number 27.
19 Q Which was what?
20 A Item number 27, I believe, is a cap. I have
21 to keep shifting back and forth.
22 Yes, it’s a cap. That was recovered from the
23 driver’s floor of the Bronco.
24 Q And again, that item was viewed by the defense
25 last week as well?
26 A Yes.
27 Q And item number 112?
28 A Is trace evidence recovered from item number
0024
01 37. That is a left-handed leather glove.
02 Q And what is the trace evidence recovered from
03 that left-handed leather glove?
04 A Yes.
05 Q What is the trace evidence?
06 A It’s hairs and fibers in this case.
07 Q Also examined by the defense last week?
08 A Yes.
09 Q Item number 113.
10 A Was hairs recovered from item number 38, which
11 is a blue knit cap.
12 Q Did you say that was hairs recovered from a
13 blue knit cap?
14 A Yes, a blue knit cap. And some fibers also,
15 I’m sorry.
16 Q And that was also viewed by the defense last
17 week?
18 A Yes.
19 Q So now, with respect to those hair items, I’m
20 going to come back to those later.
21 Let’s go back now and address the blood splits
22 that have been requested.
23 Now, based on your training and your
24 qualifications, are you qualified to indicate to this
25 court what volume of sample is needed for each test?
26 A Basically, yes. An overall evaluation.
27 Q Now, with respect to items 1 through 60, and
28 items 82 through 87, did you make a determination as to
0025
01 whether a blood split for the defense on those — any of
02 those items would be possible after the testing of those
03 items on all standards available would be possible?
04 A Yes. We made an estimated evaluation of the
05 samples and found that a few of them appear to be
06 sufficient for split after the whole battery of tests is
07 completed.
08 There’s no guarantee until we complete those
09 tests, however, other than on the samples taken from the
10 victims and the defendant. There is plenty of sample
11 for split.
12 Q When you say “samples taken from the victims
13 and the defendant,” you mean —
14 A Those are the standards.
15 Q The standards.
16 A The reference samples, the whole blood taken
17 from Mr. Simpson and the whole blood swatches, frozen
18 swatches, taken at the time of autopsy from the
19 coroner’s office.
20 Q Now, can you tell us, identifying by item
21 number, which ones you determined may, after we’ve
22 completed the — your testing on them, may permit for a
23 split?
24 A Certainly.
25 Item number 3, which is a cigarette butt
26 recovered from the street, would be tested, and there
27 should be plenty for a split after we’re done.
28 Item number 7 is several swatches containing
0026
01 red stains recovered from a driveway, and it is
02 possible — looks fairly good that that could have
03 enough left for a split after the testing is done.
04 Item number 12 also has several swatches of
05 different sizes, and they are fairly dark red; and
06 again, those are — appear to be a good possibility for
07 a split after our testing is all done.
08 Q Item number 17?
09 A Item number 17, as stated before, is a
10 reference sample from Mr. Simpson, and there’s plenty
11 of — there will be plenty of that available for a
12 split.
13 Item number 42, there is again several
14 swatches, fairly medium to dark red in color, and there
15 should be enough for a split at the end of the testing.
16 Item number 44, that’s possible. Those
17 appear to be very much weaker, but there are several
18 swatches and so there’s a good possibility of a split on
19 that item also.
20 Number 47, there’s plenty there. We have no
21 question there will be enough for a split when we’re
22 done.
23 Item number 49 —
24 Q Excuse me.
25 A I’m sorry.
26 Q Can you say for certain that a blood split
27 could be provided before the testing has been completed?
28 A No, not actually. There could be
0027
01 something — this is our best estimate, again. There
02 could be something go wrong. There may be not as much
03 white blood cells there as we need, and so we could be
04 wrong.
05 The best guess, without actually starting to
06 extract the evidence and prepare preliminary gels on it,
07 we can’t tell for sure.
08 Item number 49, there should be — again,
09 appears to be plenty available for a split when we’re
10 done with our testing.
11 Item number 50 is a little weaker but has a
12 good possibility for a split after we’re done.
13 Item number 57 appears to be possible for a
14 split, but after we’re done testing.
15 Again, as indicated earlier, items number 72
16 and 82, blood swatches from the victims, will both —
17 plenty material available for a split after we’re done.
18 Q Those are blood samples taken from the
19 victims?
20 A Reference samples. Yes. They’re listed as
21 coroner’s samples.
link to the transcript for June 30th, 1994
In the 43 minute, and 9 second excerpt, the audio does not come back at all. In the 3 hour video, it picks up at 32 minutes. There is a second 51 minute excerpt with a gap. During the longer one, after the direct examination, an argument over Kestler’s CV ensued, and the court took a break, this 51 minute excerpt does not capture that, and instead starts with the cross examination. Unfortunately youtube will not even let me come close to embedding this video! I think we’re going to have a whole bunch of Youtube issues like this. Link to the 51 minute excerpt.
When the third excerpt starts, Kestler and Shapiro are talking about hairs. This is actually a motion hearing during the preliminary hearing, but so are the questions about splitting evidence. No, I don’t have the original motions for that. We only have a sampling of the documents, and this will be a recurring theme. The list of documents is available on the transcript website.
During the third excerpt, we finish the split motion, and the hair sample motion, both of which I never heard about until 2022! Then we took a break, After this, we start with the preliminary hearing testimony. The motion to suppress hearing was put off to another day, because of scheduling issues.
Here is the fourth excerpt
During the fourth and fith excerpts, there are two witnesses testifying that we will not hear from in trial. Both of them have quite relevant evidence, however the brother of one of them did sign an agreement with the national inquirer, in which the witness profitted from. When Bill Hodgman was prosecuting the case during the preliminary hearing, this wasn’t a problem, he knew how to preempt the defense, and you’ll see a demonstration here, in these excerpts. When Clark and Darden took over the case, however, this became a problem, and so they refused to call any witnesses who had had dealings with media.
Here’s the fifth excerpt
What happens is the direct and cross examination of Jose Camacho gets cut off a bit, so, I do have my trusty transcript around here somewhere! Oh wait, here it is, and here it goes.
21 Q Now, Mr. Camacho, on Tuesday of last week, did
22 you testify before the Los Angeles grand jury?
23 A Yes, sir, I did.
24 Q And, Mr. Camacho, after you testified before
25 the grand jury, what happened to you?
26 A As soon as I got to the store, I start getting
27 a lot of different calls and, you know, the media went to
28 the store, asking all kinds of different questions.
0074
01 Q And this occurred after you testified before
02 the grand jury; is that correct?
03 A Yes, sir.
04 Q When you say you started getting calls from
05 the media, can you give us a little bit better idea what
06 happened, sir?
07 A They start asking me if I was in court, you
08 know, if I had testified. But, you know, I denied it,
09 because I was told to say so, it’s not because I wanted to
10 lie, I was told not to say nothing.
11 Q Do you recall what media sources tried to
12 contact you, with regard to what you knew about this
13 matter?
14 A Yeah, a lot of — well, channel 5, channel 4,
15 hard copy, and so many others. You know, I’m kind of
16 nervous, I cannot recall those right now.
17 Q Did people come to the store?
18 A Yes, they did. A lot of media people came to
19 the store.
20 Q Did any of the individuals from the media who
21 came to the store, give you business cards?
22 A Yes. Almost everyone, but I just throw them
23 away.
24 Q Did you talk to any of these people from the
25 media?
26 A Yes, I did.
27 Q And to whom did you speak?
28 A The names I cannot recall. But I can tell you
0075
01 that I talked to the guy for channel 4. There’s another
02 guy that came from New York, and I talked to the guys from
03 hard copy.
04 Q Sir, when you say you talked to these people,
05 were you responding to questions they were trying to ask
06 you?
07 A Well, you know, they’re — they’re tricky
08 people, you know, they force you to talk, you know. You
09 don’t want to talk, but they force you to.
10 Q Did you feel that you were under some
11 pressure, Mr. Camacho?
12 A what did you say?
13 Q Did you feel that you were under some
14 pressure?
15 A Yes, sir, I was in a lot of — I still am,
16 yes.
17 Q The one thing I want to clarify, Mr. Camacho,
18 is that when you said you talked to these people, you were
19 talking to them and telling them, “no, I don’t want to talk
20 to you”; is that correct?
21 A Yes, sir, I did that.
22 Q But at some point, Mr. Camacho, you did agree
23 to talk with at least — how shall I characterize this —
24 with one individual who wanted you to speak about what you
25 knew about the knife transaction; is that correct?
26 A Yes.
27 Q And from what entity or organization was that
28 individual?
0076
01 A Can I say that? I don’t know.
02 Q Yes, you may.
03 A Yes, I talked to the Enquirer people.
04 Q By “enquirer,” are you referring to the
05 national Enquirer?
06 A Or the national Enquirer, yes.
07 Q Do you recall the name of the person whom you
08 talked to from the national Enquirer?
09 A Yes. I talked to — his name is Mr. Allen, I
10 can’t recall the last name.
11 Q Was this over the telephone, or did this
12 Mr. Allen come to your store?
13 A First, he was so persistent, I didn’t want to
14 answer the phone. But he was so persistent, so I talked to
15 him. Then he came to the store, and we talked there.
16 Q Did this fellow you’ve referred to as
17 Mr. Allen, offer you money?
18 A Yes, he did.
19 Q Did he tell you anything else?
20 A Well, he offered me — he offer $12,000 —
21 500 — 12,000 and $500, to tell him the — what had
22 happened, you know, in the store.
23 So, I just — I tell him the truth. I told
24 him — because it was a lot of pressure to me, to be lying
25 to a lot of other people, and that’s not — that’s not me.
26 I don’t like to lie.
27 Q Sir, when you’re saying you were lying to
28 other people, you were lying to all these people who were
0077
01 trying to get you to talk about the sales transaction with
02 the defendant; is that correct?
03 A Yes.
04 Q And finally, you succumbed to this pressure;
05 is that correct?
06 A Yes. I want to take that pressure off myself,
07 you know, to tell the truth, you know, that I was lying,
08 because I was was forced to lie.
09 And I told them the truth, you know, what
10 happened, that I have sold the knife to Mr. O.J. simpson.
11 Q Was Allen wattenberg at the store at the time
12 this representative from the national Enquirer came?
13 A No, sir, he was not. He was not in town, no.
14 Q He was not in town; is that correct?
15 A No.
16 Q Was allen’s brother, Richard, working at the
17 store on the day that the representative from the national
18 Enquirer showed up?
19 A Yes, he was.
20 Q Did he speak with this fellow from the
21 national Enquirer, as well?
22 A Yes, he did.
23 Q During the course of that conversation, were
24 you told something about someone else having spoken to the
25 national Enquirer?
26 A Yes.
27 Q What do you recall about that?
28 A Well, there were, I guess, actors, too, or
0078
01 actress, I don’t know how you say that, it was — it was
02 another guy that had contact the Enquirer, telling them
03 about the — about Mr. O.J. simpson, that he had purchased
04 the knife, because they saw him there. And —
05 Q Was it after this representative from the
06 national Enquirer told you that, that you decided —
07 A Yes.
08 Q — You would talk to the Enquirer as well?
09 A Yes.
10 Q Would you tell us why, Mr. Camacho?
11 A Well, I would say this other guy was going to
12 get, I guess, the money, with a lie. Because he was lying,
13 he never — I mean, he saw that Mr. O.J. was there in the
14 store, but he never exactly saw what he bought. And that’s
15 when I decide to say — if this guy’s going to get some
16 money, when he doesn’t — he’s not sure what really
17 happened, you know.
18 So that’s when I say, “well, I’m taking all
19 this pressure, and for nothing. So I’m going to get
20 something out of it,” you know. It’s not much, but I say
21 something.
22 Q So, you wanted to get something for yourself;
23 is that correct?
24 A Sure.
25 Q Now, did you sign a contract with the national
26 Enquirer?
27 A Yes, I did.
28 Q Did Mr. Richard wattenberg, to your
0079
01 knowledge?
02 A Yes.
03 Q With regard to your contact with the national
04 Enquirer, did anybody from the national Enquirer come to
05 Ross cutlery and take some pictures there?
06 A Yes, sir, they did.
07 Q Tell us about that Mr. Camacho.
08 A Well, first I talked to Mr. Allen, and then I
09 guess he contact the photographer, to come down to the
10 store to start taking pictures.
11 Q Were pictures taken of you?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Were pictures taken of Mr. Richard
14 wattenberg?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Were pictures taken of the store?
17 A Yes.
18 Q And were pictures taken of the knife, such as
19 the one we have displayed here in People’s 1?
20 A Yes, sir.
21 Q Have you been paid by the national Enquirer
22 yet, Mr. Camacho?
23 A No, not yet.
24 Q Do you expect to be paid?
25 A They told me they would send a check this
26 coming Monday, this coming Monday.
27 Q And what’s supposed to happen this coming
28 Monday, that would cause you to get a check?
0080
01 A Can you repeat that again?
02 Q Sure. Let me rephrase it a different way.
03 Mr. Camacho, do you expect the next issue of
04 the national enquirer to come out this coming Monday?
05 A Yes.
06 Q Is it after that that you expect to get paid?
07 A Yes, sir.
08 Q So, in a sense, Mr. Camacho, by virtue of your
09 testimony today, we have scooped the national enquirer; is
10 that correct?
11 You don’t need to answer that, Mr. Camacho.
12 MR. HODGMAN: I have no further questions for
13 Mr. Camacho.
14 THE COURT: Thank you.
15 Mr. SHAPIRO.
16 MR. SHAPIRO: Thank you very much, your Honor.
17
18 CROSS-EXAMINATION
19
20 BY MR. SHAPIRO:
21 Q Good afternoon, Mr. Camacho.
22 A Good afternoon, sir.
23 Q What attracted your attention to Mr. Simpson?
24 Was there was some film crew right outside
25 your store?
26 A Can you repeat that again?
27 Q you testified that there was some excitement
28 going on, and that there was some movie, or some type of
0081
01 film being made?
02 A Yeah.
03 Q Was that an exciting event for you, and the
04 people in the store?
05 A Not really.
06 Q Did you pay attention to that?
07 A No, sir. Because there’s a lot of — they’re
08 always shooting there at the store.
09 Q They’re always shooting at the store?
10 A Yes. You know, they’re filming.
11 Q So, there was nothing unusual about shooting
12 movies there?
13 A No, sir. Like I say, they always filming
14 there.
15 Q And on this occasion, do you recall whether
16 there were personnel that were in police uniforms, trying
17 to keep people away from the film crew, and to keep the
18 street closed at certain times?
19 A Not really. Just the security guard, that was
20 it.
21 Q There were security guards there?
22 A Yeah.
23 Q Do you know whether those security guards were
24 Los Angeles Police Department personnel?
25 A Yeah. They’re usually retired officers, I
26 would say.
27 Q And during the course of this day, a lot of
28 people from this film came into the store?
0082
01 A Yes, sir.
02 Q Lot of actors?
03 A Yes.
04 Q Maybe directors, some other people; is that
05 correct?
06 A Yes, sir.
07 Q In fact, at the same time, there were some
08 police people in uniforms in the store, were there not?
09 A That, I do not recall.
10 Q You don’t recall?
11 A Not — I mean the officers, just
12 plainclothes?
13 Q No, in uniforms. Policemen in uniforms, that
14 were working on the set, that also came into the store.
15 A Oh, yeah, yeah. That’s — yeah, that’s true.
16 Q And at the time that Mr. Simpson came in, you
17 told the police he was looking at various items, including
18 watches and knives; is that correct?
19 A yeah.
20 Q Is that yes?
21 A Yes. Because they’re all together there.
22 Q And he looked at several different types of
23 knives?
24 A I would say he only looked — he asked for
25 other prices, but I only showed him two knives.
26
27 Q Are you sure?
28 A Or say three knives.
0083
01 Q Do you know whether it was two or three?
02 A Three.
03 Q The one he purchased, he said, “I like this
04 one”?
05 A Yes.
06 Q Didn’t say anything else?
07 A No, sir.
08 Q He didn’t say why he wanted to buy a knife?
09 A No, sir, he did not say that. I just sell it.
10 Q There’s nothing unusual about somebody buying
11 that type of knife, is there?
12 A No, sir, that’s correct. That’s what we sell
13 there.
14 Q That happens every day in your business, is
15 that correct?
16 A Every day.
17 Q Now, you testified that the money you got for
18 selling your story, was not a lot of money, but it was
19 something.
20 MR. HODGMAN: Your Honor, I’ll object. That
21 misstates the evidence.
22 THE COURT: Excuse me. It is a question. The
23 objection is overruled.
24 You can answer that, if you’re able to.
25 THE WITNESS: Yeah, it’s true. It’s not a lot of
26 money.
27 BY MR. SHAPIRO:
28 Q And when channel 4 came to talk to you, did
0084
01 they offer you any money?
02 A No, sir.
03 Q What about channel 5?
04 A No, sir.
05 Q What about the other television stations? Did
06 they offer you any money?
07 A Except hard copy.
08 Q How much did they offer you?
09 A Some peanuts.
10 Q So, you really were like a businessman, and
11 you wanted to sell your story to the highest bidder; right?
12 A Sure.
Transcript for June 30th, 1994Link to the longer video I’m linking to it again, just in case anyone wants to watch straight through.

This is the longest post I’ve ever written, it was mostly about compiling, but I had to watch all the testimony as I went to make sure everything was OK with it. I will have to do this as we go, and I still have the entire 2025 slate of cases I plan on following. Needless to say, I’m not sure if I’ll be in a wwhole lot of syncronization with the timeline.